Source: May Day! May Day!
Channel: Mormon Discussion Inc.
Published: May 1, 2026 | Archived: May 1, 2026
Video: May Day! May Day!
Channel: Mormon Discussion Inc.
Published: May 1, 2026
Duration: 2:11:39
Views: 1,727
Category: Comedy
Video ID: I-meReaqxU8
Description
Mormonism After Dark! Making the trauma of deconstruction easier to bear! Join us in the Post-Mormon Lounge for a bit of relaxation and conversation. Adult beverages optional. This is where we sit back, unwind and deconstruct. All are welcome. All welcome. This podcast has many hearts. And you are one of them! Join us for a fun time! At Mormonism After Dark!
Transcript — YouTube panel (human-authored)
0:01 Good evening everybody. I'm Radio Free Mormon. This is Mormonism After Dark, where all the cool cats hang out at the end of a work week to sit back, relax, and deconstruct with family and friends. Welcome to the Post Mormon Lounge. How do you like the intro? Let me know. Okay, I'll be checking the live chat later. It's over here, but I can't really pay that much attention to it. I apologize.
0:36 It's better if you just come on the show. We've got the music playing nicely. I'm going to lower that a bit. It's a beautiful night out as you can see. I'll take up the whole stage now. Yeah. And speaking of live chat, I looked at the live chat last I guess it was Monday, I think it was. It was a bit of an off schedule. We had the special episode with Wendy last Monday instead of Friday. We're back on the regular schedule on Friday at 8:00 p.m. Mountain time. And I looked at the live chat because we tried something a little bit different there. Instead of having everybody sort of swarm on at the beginning, which led to a bit of chaos, we had people show up in the order in which they logged into the studio. So if they had something on their mind, they could share it and then bring in someone else and so on. And that way it seemed a bit more orderly. Now, of the comments that were made in the live chat, uh the
1:32 only ones that I saw that pertain to this issue were in favor of continuing it that way, that new way. I didn't see anybody in the live chat who didn't like it or thought we should go back to letting everybody on at the same time. So based on that, I'm going to continue to do the same thing tonight. I'm going to make a few comments at first. Okay, there's a few small stories that you need to know, things that are going on. Uh the first one's behind the scenes. Second one's not really behind the scenes. In fact, it got its own story in the Salt Lake Tribune today.
2:03 And I'm speaking here of somebody's excommunication. I'm talking about Landon Brophy. And I'm only putting it in air quotes because I'm still not convinced it's really an excommunication. I think this is a a fake. It has all the earmarks of a fate. But we'll get to that in a second. The first thing I want you to know is you remember that episode I did about the the bar complaints, the two young men from Fair Mormon and the cavalry who filed bar complaints against me back in October for that prank with the sister missionaries involving a certain pumpkin.
2:35 Let me see here. Hayden Nicks, h a den, no y in that name. And Tyler go lightly. Those are the two names of the uh the miscreants who filed the bar complaints. Well, once it went up and I had the bar complaints, which I went over, including pictures of them. Uh and those were not gratuitous pictures, by the way, photographs, which I got off their Facebook page. I was doing it specifically in order to prove two points. One, that they are in fact members of the church, that they are Mormons and faithful Mormons. And number two, that they are apologists, apologetic Mormons. Okay? So, they've got more of an axe to grind against yours truly. So, uh if I had wanted to be gratuitous, believe me, I could have been. There were lots of other great things on their Facebook pages I could have included if I wanted to be gratuitous, but I didn't. I restrained myself. Anyway, after that uh program went up on YouTube, the complaint started filing in from these guys and
3:32 their little buddies uh complaining about privacy and their faces being shown and how bad that was. So, uh, once again, I mentioned this before, but there's more to the story now. So, I want to tell you this because Bill really contacted me and said they've got the complaints. He forwarded the complaints, and all it is is some uh, YouTube person bot. It's all form letter uh, saying that they had received complaints about stuff in the video, and it's giving us the opportunity to correct the complaint about the privacy.
4:06 And if we don't correct it, then they'll likely take it down. They don't give any specifics about what it is that needs to be corrected, just this general kind of category. And I guess that makes sense because usually when you make the complaints to YouTube, it's a generic category, isn't it? Yeah, that's probably what it is. So what Bill did then in an overabundance I thought of caution was he blurred everybody's faces in this entire thing uh an entire YouTube podcast um and it may be except for Hayden Nicks and Tyler Go Lightly. I think it was except for them and there are other people involved and pictured so he took them all out. Um well a couple days ago YouTube took it down anyway.
4:54 a couple days, a couple weeks, YouTube took it down. And what had happened is is that Bill then had taken it, the original, and put it on the website. So, I want to show you this right now, okay? So, you can see what's going on is if you go to the radiorefree mormon web page, that radiorefreeman.org or address that I'm always mentioning to you about donations. If you go there, there is the audio of all of my YouTube podcasts. It also has some that are under um you know uh excuse me, Mormon discussions, but all the RFMs are under the RFM brand.
5:35 The last one was this lawsuit that I did last Saturday about John Delin. It's got 20,000 views. Everybody's interested in this. Then there was the one for Mormonism Live. Then there was the one about that bar complaint roundtable. That was last Monday. Then there's uh there's Bart Urman who we had on the show. And now right next to that, okay, right next to that is in the middle. Apologist file bar complaints against me.
5:59 The formatting for whatever reason truncates that on the sides, but that's the one. That's the one. So what Bill did was he managed to make it. So if you click on this, see this isn't YouTube. This is on the radio.org. So this is still up. And if you click on that and go down there, it's a they can't handle the truth. And then here's a link that says original video of RFM's They can't handle the truth. And if you click on that, then you go over here to this page, Radio Free Mormon here, and you can watch the entire video. broadcasting behind enemy lines with faces. Tonight's episode number 453 and none of them are blurred.
6:47 Apologist bar complains. Oh yeah, brilliant thinking there, Bill. So I want everybody to know how you can get there. You want to see that video? It used to be it used to be seeing that video um with the faces uh not blurred, but now it's the only place you can go to see that video. And that's why I wanted to bring the story up again so you would know. All right, so that's one thing. Now, the second thing that's going on, by the way, while I'm thinking about it, h yeah, let me go ahead and do this. I want to Oh, I should be able to do this quicker by now. Let me see here.
7:26 Nope, that's not it. I'll do it a different way. Uh, what I'm doing is I'm going to put the link to the show in the chat. I wonder. Let me see here. If I go to comments, share your referral link that says a referral link. No, I've made that mistake before. Anyway, I think you can do it from this page. It's just I don't know how. So, I'll go to do another page here. She'll give me just a second. I apologize for this.
8:04 I hope everybody had a great week and is having a wonderful Mayday. There it is. Invite guests. Okay. So, let me come back over here. I'm going to put this in the live chat. And there it is. Okay. Now, before you come on, before I allow you on, you can come on into the studio if you want and you'll come in and order automatically. Um, but I need to read you the story because the story broke in the Salt Lake Tribune today about Landon Landon Brophy and his excommunication. Right. So, let me show you this. All right. There's Mormonism after dark. I have a little image there.
8:50 I'm not sure it shows up too well in the bottom right. That's a bunch of little girls with a different colored ribbons around the maple. This is the thumbnail that they did over at Mormonish last Tuesday to break the news about this excommunication with Mormonish's Landon Brophy. They told the story there. Okay. And uh all I'm saying is it just sounds I mean it's not signed. It's got printed the names of the different members. I guess it's either the bishop brick or the state presidency. The the main point being there's no signatures.
9:24 There's no letter head. It's just a blank piece of paper. And um apparently there was a prior letter that looked the same. So either this is the worst hoax in the history of hoaxes, at least since 1830. Either this is the worst hoax in the history of hoaxes or it's like the worst um I don't know excommunication in the history of excommunications. It's like they couldn't have made it look any uh more hokeier if they had tried. But here's what it says in the Salt Lake Tribune. Okay, so I'm going to read this, then we'll start letting people on. I figure this is something that people want to talk about. If you want to talk about other things, that's fine, too.
10:01 Utah podcaster says LDS church booted him out for apostasy. So this is by Tamara Kimley, a Utah podcaster known for criticizing the leaders policies and beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. By the way, Tamara Kimley knows how to spell the name of the church correctly. That was another thing that in the letter it misspelled the name of the church. It had it didn't have the latter day. It's that common misspelling that people who are not members goof up with regularity. And you don't have you take out the hyphen and you capitalize that other D. I think that's actually is the name of another church just that difference. He may have been excommunicated from a different church entirely. So, um, and that's one of the jokes I think he made about announcing this week that he received a letter notifying him that he had been removed from the faith's roles for, drum roll please, apostasy.
10:58 Landon Broofphy, co-host of Mormonish. Instead, the movie said the move surprised him, not only because work had prevented him from regularly appearing on the show for the past 18 months, but also due to the fact that he hadn't attended weekly church services in years. Nevertheless, Brophy, who lives in Syracuse, and uh that's a I believe that's a town in North I don't say North Utah, north of Salt Lake City in Utah, did not contest the letter's accusations, which stated that the church's local membership council was convened due to concerns of apostasy related to multiple podcast episodes in direct contradiction to the principles and doctrines of the faith. So, he doesn't contest that. Why? because he says, "Notice they didn't say that it was in direct contradiction to the teachings of Christ or the scriptures or contrary to historical data." Goodwin Landon, he said in a podcast episode announcing the news, "They say you
11:59 disagree with the church." That much, he said, is true. A one-time member of multiple lay bishop Ricks, Brophie said he effectively left the church seven years ago after questions about many of the faith's truth claims went unanswered. He opted against attending the disciplinary council in which local church leaders made their final decision to withdraw his name formerly called excommunication offer calling it a kangaroo court. I remember when he said that. Yeah. And of course it is. It's a kangaroo court. Uh, church excommunication courts make kangaroo courts look good. The Utah based church Mormonism has repeatedly emphasized that disciplinary action against members are left to local leaders. Yes. And they've repeatedly lied about that as well.
12:47 The podcast audience Mormonish, which claims more than 13,000 subscribers on YouTube, advertises itself as a podcast for post and nuance Mormons seeking a joyful life as they navigate their faith journey outside of Orthodox Mormonism. Broofphy and also co-host, excuse me, Brophie and his co-host known only by her pseudonym Rebecca Biblioteka started the podcast three and a half years ago. Frequently topics include or frequent topics include challenging the historicity of the faith's foundational text, the Book of Mormon, membership trends, and grassroots resistance to the faith's historic temple building spree.
13:30 Oh boy, I'm glad they mentioned that. By the way, I did contact um uh Rebecca and Landon to see if they could come on the show tonight, even briefly. They said they're not available. They're off in the forest doing God knows what. But um maybe maybe if we get l lucky and we all we all, you know, pray in our hearts that they'll show up, they'll they'll call in or something. Maybe we'll have reception out there in the forest.
13:53 Rebecca told the Salt Lake Tribune she had yet to receive a similar notice regarding her membership, theorizing that her use of a pseudonym has hindered leaders efforts to locate and contact her. Wow. Okay. So, she has not received one yet and um she thinks maybe her use of a pseudonym is one of the factors for that. It is kind of funny, isn't it, that Landon gets nailed and Rebecca is, you know, skipping free. I understand everybody's comparing Landon to me, okay? But we're on totally different podcasts. And I think the more interesting comparison, mainly because it doesn't involve me, is between Landon and Rebecca. Because between the two of them, I mean, who would you excommunicate first? That's what I'm asking. I think we all know who it is, and it wouldn't be Landon. So, it's kind of surprising that she gets off scot-free for now. And it's because of her name, and nobody really knows who she who she is. That's one reason she said, "I don't share my full name. I prefer flying under the radar."
14:55 Rebecca's famous for flying under the radar. If nothing else, she and Brophie expressed surprise that the church would target someone who remained a member in name only. "Typically, what we've seen," Brophie said in an interview. "Typically, what we've seen is that they don't bother with people who don't go to church." Other church departures. Julie de Azivdo, a therapist and frequent critic on social media of the church's patriarchy, said the same. How would his local leaders even know who he is? Wondered the influencer. That's what Julie says. How would his local leaders even know who he is? I don't know how they would. I think that's a really good question. And I think that question lines up more in the hoax category. Uh I don't know. Maybe we'll figure all this out eventually. But wouldn't it be funny?
15:46 Wouldn't it be funny if some jokers like from the cavalry uh or somebody who didn't like landed for like personal reasons jury rigs this whole thing up and does a fake letter and he gets it. He thinks it's real and then he goes to the Salt Lake Tribune and they publish an article about it and now the whole world is finding out that the church has excommunicated Landon Broofphy and in this scenario if it's a hoax the church hasn't done any such thing.
16:16 So my question is, if that's the case and you're the church, what do you do? Do you do you contradict it publicly or you just say, "Ah, screw it. We didn't want Landon on board anyway." So she says, "How would his local leaders even know who he is?" Wonder the influencer, Julie Dazedo, a self-identified Mormon whose name remains on the books, although she said she no longer attends church in Wednesday. I do that because it's a very small print here. In Wednesday's Let me move myself over here. This might help a little bit. In Wednesday's episode and to and in interviews, Brophie said Brophie and Rebecca framed the development as one in a string of actions by the church to silence online critics. Other examples they pointed to include the church's recent lawsuit against John Delin's Mormon stories for alleged trademark infringement and the membership withdrawal of British. British. Who could that be?
17:14 Ah, podcaster Douglas Stilgo, known as Nemo the Mormon. In late 2024, in March 2025, lest it be forgot, husband and wife podcasters Nathan and Valerie Hey Maker or Hammacker, Hey Maker sounds pretty cool though, dropped a bombshell on followers of their show Latter-day Struggles when they announced they had resigned their membership ahead of a disciplinary council. they anticipated would have ended in their ouster. Their show focuses on helping those who are struggling with a faith crisis and who say they have been harmed by the church.
17:54 And this one is the last I think the last slide in the story which concludes with this observation that in a February devotional at church-owned Brigham Y Young University, church president Dan H. jokes warned his students against speculation and false information. I remember that. Do you remember that? Warned him against speculation and false information in podcasts and on social media saying some individuals protest or question church doctrines without fully understanding them. Because of course, if we had fully understood them, we would never question them.
18:34 My problem was actually that I studied long and hard enough to where I did fully understand them and that's where the questions came from. Okay, so that's the end of this. Let me see if I can bring some people on. I'll get this off the stage first. And uh Laura was the first person who showed up in the studio. Laura, hey fam. How you doing? I'm great, thank you. How are you doing?
19:00 I'm good. I'm sorry I missed out on Sunday. I I wasn't uh I had a bunch of school stuff to do. Well, I would be lying if I said that the views for that were not higher than anything else I've done on my own separate from Bill because they were they were higher. Really? Yeah. I just put the the address in the live chat again to get on board. But we got plenty of people down here just so you know. Laura. Okay.
19:24 How was your week? It was good. It was good. I watched uh Do you have Netflix? No. Oh, I don't think I have time to watch it anyway. But you there's something on it. Was it about that prophet guy? Yes. It's fantastic. I've watched it three times. It's so good. Really? What did you like about it? I keep it on in the background when I read for school, so I haven't like really watched it three times, but I've had it on a lot. It's really good.
19:53 Was this one of the guys who took over from um Jeff Jeff? Uh not Jeff. Warren Jeffs. He so nobody's technically taken over for him. I think one of his sons or brothers, Helilimman, is trying to his was a splinter group. He only had three male followers, but he got all their daughters and a lot of their wives. So it it was just an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot. He who dies with the most wives wins.
20:23 Yeah. Well, I think I don't know who had more, Rulan or Warren Jeffs. I lost count. I know that two was enough for me. You hit your limit. I thought you needed three to get to the celestial kingdom. I'm opting out. RF. There came a time and you know it was pretty long in my history in the LDS church as an active member where I started getting the concerning thought that the celestial kingdom may look an awful lot like general conference played on a constant loop and that's when I started losing interest in the whole proposition.
21:12 Why would Mormons control the celestial kingdom? Because that's all that's there. Well, what they restored the church, but there was a church before the Mormons, too. It just fell into disarray. Well, yeah, those were Mormons, too. Here's the thing. In Mormonism, the belief is, although they don't say it this way, and I know that. Okay. But the belief is that Jesus was a Mormon.
21:37 Am I right? I'm right. Am I right? Jesus was a Mormon. You don't hear him say it, but obviously he was a Mormon. He had to be a Mormon otherwise he wouldn't have been Jesus is the first Mormon Jew. Yes. First Mormon Christian Jew. And then you know Moses, he was a Mormon. He was a big Mormon. And uh he even had the first two letters of his name start with the same as Mormon. That's how big it has to be true. Adam was a Mormon.
22:07 This has to be true. Eve was the president of the First Relief Society. All these things are true. It's dispensationalism. And what we have in this church is everything according to Joseph Smith. I think we all know this is everything that has been had in previous dispensations plus some things that were never had in prior dispensations. I think that's in the Doctrine of Covenants.
22:36 So, it's just cyclical with a couple of sprinklings of novelty here and there. Well, it keeps falling into apostasy. Apparently, God hasn't figured out how to cure that particular defect yet. In Mormonism, apostasy is actually a feature, not a bug, except for this dispensation, which is never going to go into apostasy, no matter how long it takes Jesus to come back. It seems like apostasy is so fluid, though. All you have to do is speak against a living prophet.
23:04 And aren't you going against the authority of the church? And doesn't that label you an apostate? God is very big on people respecting his authority. Yeah. And so was the the president of the church. You know, President Oaks wants that very much. Um there was another thought that had occurred to me sometime in my journey about there's a celestial kingdom. Then there was oh it was about apostasy because all I see about me and the church is well okay let's put it this way. The church is in a double bind. The reason it's in a double bind is because, hang on a second. I'm making a little note here.
23:42 Okay. The reason it's in a double bind is because if Joseph Smith were not a prophet, then today's leaders are not prophets. Right? I think we can all understand that. The problem for the church is that if Joseph Smith were a prophet, then today's leaders sure as hell aren't prophets. That's the double bind that the church is in. So, that was a thought that had occurred to me. And the final one, the one I was originally going to talk about was apostasy, which was this whole idea of dispensationalism in Mormonism, that the fullness of the gospel has been had from the very beginning. Fell into apostasy, got restored. There's like Noah uh falls into apostasy, gets restored through Moses, falls into and seven times, right? Elijah might have won. You have to work to get that that extra one in there. But Jesus is definitely one and he's the last one.
24:32 And then there's Joseph Smith number seven for seven dispensations. And it is stated in the doctrine of covenants as revelation from God that this time this time the truth will not fall into apostasy. And the thought occurred to me one day and this is quite a few years ago. I imagine that every prior dispensation must have believed the same thing about itself that it would never fall into apostasy.
25:03 Yeah. But God revealed to them that they wouldn't fall into apostasy. Oh, I I don't know. I don't know. But I'm just sure I'm just sure everybody believed that. Um Yeah. But it's different from believing it because you can't see an end to this and believing it because God guarantees that it's not going to fall into apostasy. Well, obviously by this point in time, I wasn't giving as much credence to revelations of God in the Doctrine of Covenants as I might have before that.
25:32 Hey Laura, let's see if we can bring on Na. Na, what is this? We got We got a bunch of just empty squares on the screen. Incognito. Yeah. Yeah, you know, some of us still have family that are, you know, in and, you know, it's just easier to go with like, you know, not like advertising your face. Okay. Well, can you describe it? Can maybe if you described it, I could do a little police sketch artist kind of thing here.
26:03 Uh, let's see. Uh, I have hair that goes past my collar in back and Yes. Okay. And uh I have a beard that uh goes down to my belly button. Are you kidding me? No. Really? Yes. Okay. And you have a mustache, too? Yep. Okay. Wow. Hang on a second here. Okay. Here we go. That's the one. That is that that actually works. That is perfect. That's the one that got me. That's dead on. Thank you very much. I have Michael Angelo.
26:50 The problem is when you have so many gifts and there's only one lifetime in which to use them all. Exactly. It's a shame. It's a shame. All right. So, I remember what I needed to push back about Bill Rio on. Wait, I know. I know. But I think he can back me up on this at least for the era. Um probably prior to maybe when he converted uh basically we were taught critical thinking when it concerned things that were went against the church and approach was skepticism things that spoke poorly of the church or debunk other religions. It's part of why, you know, at least for that that long long period, you had these straight to Mormon to atheist pipeline because you've already debunked it.
27:40 Yeah. And pulled their foundations down. So why are you going to believe in something that you've already debunked? I don't know. But, you know, um I certainly hear what you're saying. My experience was very similar and I remember it starkly because as a an apologist, a budding apologist in the early 80s after my mission in Austin and reading the books and everything, you know, and I'm learning, I'm training my mind and and it's giving all these examples of um anti- Mormons and how they use these thinking errors and they try and fool you into thinking they're right by a host of different means.
28:16 Okay. Ellipsies being just one of a misuse of ellipses, I should say. And um and I was getting these and I was write I wrote a manuscript in response to an anti- Mormon book and uh it's still unpublished as it should be. I should bring it forth and read something of it. It's a miracle it still exists because it was the 80s for crying out loud. Um and it was on floppy disc if you remember what that was.
28:42 That's what you That's what you look like. You look like a couple of floppy discs here tonight. Oh, yes. That's I I do remember floppies. Uh I remember the seven and uh the seven inchers, which were right before the five and a uh five quarters and then the uh three and a halfs. Mhm. Not so impressive, but the seven inch are okay. Yeah. But the thing that I remembered, the thing that I remembered and that shocked me and that disappointed me as I began to expand my researches and then start catching the Mormon apologists committing the same offenses.
29:23 Yep. And that's the trick. It's basically you know when you're especially when you're raised in that so you you know you you are being taught to critically think and that may be different slightly different from a conversion experience but you were part of that older regime and I've seen a few regimes go so you know that's terrible I'm sorry yes but it you know factually and chronologically you are you know you have you know I decided hold on to that thought when I decided that some time ago now uh 10 years ago was that actually at least the way I've lived life is that uh getting older is like climbing a tree. The view is better from the top than it is from the bottom.
30:08 There we go. Now, what were you saying? I'm sorry. That's okay. But yeah, it's essentially a very highly trained and focused form of critical thinking, but it's never to be turned against the truth because it's the truth and they try to teach you and put a blind spot in there is what they try to train into you. I have had times when I have caught myself. Maybe times before that when I haven't caught myself, but there have been times when I caught myself intentionally and deliberately suspending the rules of critical thinking when it came to church claims, giving them a pass, looking the other way, whistling by the graveyard, however you want to call it.
30:51 It's that, like I said, it's that little focus blind spot that they put in there on you. So that way they can reach in and say, "Hey, we have that authority." Remember, you believe in our authority, right? So, we're only going to give you the truth. That's all that we teach you. Prophets will always teach you the truth. That's right. The uh other bit was about about what you mentioned when you came in when you started talking on this about the uh claim. So, did it say community guideline on it or did it say copy? All right, I can't remember and I'm sorry.
31:27 It's okay. It probably said community guideline. Otherwise, you would have had a chance to rebut that with the copyright claim where you would say no, this is a fair use. And you know, then they would uh have to uh submit and show that, hey, they're taking you to court, which is one of the things that uh brings up the Mormon stories thing because So, how do you start sitting there and destroying uh Mormon or anti-or quote unquote anti- Mormon uh YouTube channels? Mhm.
31:58 Well, it's easy. Um they win either way. Um if they can get you to change the branding, your SEO changes. Mhm. So, your search engine search engine optimization goes down. You know, if people didn't get enough notice about your change in branding and name, if you got a new YouTube notification from this strange channel that says you're subscribed to it, are you going to stay subscribed?
32:22 I hate it when people change their cell phone number and say they got a new number and I've got to go through the the problems of re-entering it in my phone. That's a hassle for me. And this is much bigger for any other listener to a show, right? So to tie in copyright wise, then it's like, okay, so one of the next steps is YouTube will generally restore your video after you make your counter claim in the copyright system. And I'm pretty sure Diamond Dave is probably down somewhere in the guest who came here.
32:52 I didn't see him. Oh, okay. Well, he may show up and may be able to back me up on this, but uh what'll happen is after that counter claim, you do that and if it's all good, you know, YouTube will then generally put your video back up and then what they need to do is they need to prove that they're taking you to court over copyright. Okay. I'm going to direct Bill. And that's how the DMCA Yeah, the D That's how the DMCA generally works. Okay.
33:24 Um and YouTube and how it interacts with it is you get three copyright strikes. Yes. And then your channel copyright strikes, right? So if you didn't get a copyright strike, you got a community guideline strike. I think that's what it was. And it's not well or community guideline. Um the first one's always considered a warning. Your second community guideline will be you won't be able to stream for a week or upload.
33:53 Um there's a whole creator education system that's in the YouTube thing. Um when you look in the back end on your creator panel where you can take a look at that. Um probably what they did was they considered what you were showing as doxing and it's not a necessarily a legal standard. It's a community guideline standard which is kind of loose. So even though it's publicly available information like some of the law tube channels have ran into issues with where someone's like I don't like you talking about me and they say uh this person has you know has quote unquote doxed me to their community and I've been subject to harassment because of this.
34:36 uh they may add that in as like you know the little flavor but the main thing is that you've presented information about people who were private uh individuals right have arguments against me and probably I would hope they're not they shouldn't be after that but you know that may been how that went and they're not required to say what sections that the that it appeared in well in their complaint and YouTube is kind of nebulous and how it interacts with creators about that.
35:09 Yes. Hey Na, I really, by the way, let me let me just rephrase that. Okay. When they file it, it's not public. It was public because I made it public and I'm authorized under the rules to be able to make it public. Okay. Want to make sure I put a dot on that eye. And I know you probably want to get another person in. This is a bunch of boring YouTube stuff. So, yes. And that's my concern. I I really appreciate your knowledge and sharing it with me. Yeah. But here's Tim Wrathbone. Tim Rathbone, did you understand anything that Na was talking about?
35:39 Yes, a little bit. I've dealt with copyright. Me, too. Yes, a little bit. I I have a video that I copyright it and people keep copying it and uh posting it as their own and I always have to go in at least once a week and file a copyright strike against them. And would you say that there's somebody in the building? I hope there's somebody in the building because I hear a voice in the building and sounds like it's but it's and I'm hearing it here. I don't know if you're hearing it and I apolog.
36:22 Could you repeat that? Okay. I have a video that I copyrighted that I post. It's been there for god 15 or six anyway a long time at least 16 years and people keep copying it and posting it as their own. So at least once a week maybe once a month I go in and I have to file copyright strikes against these interlopers who come in and steal my video and claim it as their own. So are you able to find it every time it's put up somewhere else? Yes.
36:56 How? Just type in the words and it shows up. Oh, okay. I guess that makes sense. What is that video about that is so popular? Airplanes. Airplanes. Airplanes. C130s. What about a Okay, you're old enough to remember the hostage crisis. Yeah. 1979. The Iran Contra scandal. Yep. That was later. Yeah. Well, yeah, you're right. They wanted to take two C130s and land them in the soccer stadium across the street from the embassy and go and rescue the hostages.
37:36 Okay. Is this like Argo? Yeah, kind of. Okay, go ahead. But imagine a C130 with 30 rockets attached to it. So, it could land in a football field and take off in a football field. So when I worked for Lockheed, I discovered this and I uh got hold of video and stuff and copyrighted it. I have wrote very many many many Freedom of Information Act requests to get the information. Okay, now help me out. What was this ever done or was this just a plan that was never tried or what? Okay. What happened was this general Bart Kravitz wanted to see a test and they told him, "We're not ready to test it." And he says, "I don't care. I want to see it test it."
38:26 And the airplane crashed during the test because they weren't ready. There's a whole story. They didn't listen. Generals don't listen a lot. No. Not. No. It's like Captain Kirk always trying to get Scotty to hurry the hell up, right? And you know, they're used to the miracles of Loheed Martin that has produced over the over the decades, right? I mean, think about what these guys have done. True. I know. I know.
38:52 So, Tim, so it crashed. Where did it crash? It crashed over here in the States, right? Down in Florida. Yeah. Down at Eglund. Yeah. And was this a big secret that was covered up that you discovered? Yes, it was a very big secret. Yeah. When I started asking about Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, hang on a second here. Okay. So, then um what can can I ask you what the name of your video is? Credible sport.
39:21 Credible sport. Mhm. Okay. Hang on a second here. Okay. Hang on. You'll find a short clip that's about two minutes long. Cred credible. Uhhuh. Oh, and one says C130. So, I'm gonna find a clip. That's what two two minutes and 13 seconds long. Exactly. That's it. Yeah, that's what the oper the story of operation credible sport. Yeah. And then 2 minutes 50 seconds. 20 seconds. That's from the YouTube channel is Credible Sport, right? Is your official one.
40:00 Yeah. So that was the name of the operation was Credible Sport. That's one of the names that was given it. That was the main. It had a lot of different names, but Okay. Well, hang on a second here. So, are you okay if I bring this up on the screen? Go ahead. Um, let me make sure I can. I think I can. I think I got rid of the other thing I was sharing. I'm only allowed one thing at a time. So, if I do share screen of Okay, hang on just a second here.
40:29 Tim, how did you find out about this at Lockheed? I okay I made a I got a hold of a C C130 serial number list and where I worked at Lockheed Ontario which RFM took a photograph of my old workplace but didn't know it last week anyway. Um is that okay in trouble? When you had the picture of the the UPS 757 or whatever it was in the background that gray building Yeah. was my old office was in that area. Okay. So, can we look at this?
41:08 Okay. This is 2 minutes and 12 seconds long. And this is something you did, huh? Hang on. Hang on. Or you acquired? I acquired. Is that my Is that my channel? Yes. Yes, that's it. Yeah. The C130 Hercules has been the workhorse of the American military for over half a century. Originally designed as a troop cargo and medical transport, the Defense Department plans on adding one more job description, rescue plane, 1980. In response to the 52 hostages taken in Iran, the US government embarks on a top secret mission code named Credible Sport. And you're the one who discovered this.
41:51 As the situation in Iran intensifies, engineers rush to transform the 80ton C130 into a nimble aircraft capable of landing inside of a 350 ft Iranian soccer stadium. As it's currently designed, the C130 needs 1,400 ft of landing space and 1,800 ft to take off. In order to shorten the distance, engineers retrofit the plane with rockets. These rockets slow the plane as it lands and provide extra propulsion.
42:30 Awesome. It has only taken a few weeks for the C130 to be redesigned and rebuilt. As the top secret mission approaches, pilots work diligently to master the complex, newly implemented features. But in October of 1980, just days before the surgical extraction is set to take place, Operation Credible Sport is derailed. Oh my god. See the wing breaks. Okay, it's going back. As the plane comes in for a landing, pilots mistakenly fire the rockets before the wheels touch down. The plane loses lift and slams into the tarmac.
43:18 Despite the violence of this mishap, no crew members were injured. This setback not only derails the project, but shatters the hopes of everyone involved in the credible sport mission. It was not until the next year that the hostages were finally talk about. When I talked to the pilot, he says it just felt like a hard landing. I said, "Are you kidding me?" They had hear they had headphones on ear earphones.
43:44 Mhm. And they had suits that were fireproof. They were like cocooned in these things. He says, "I couldn't hear a thing." All I knew is we landed hard and that was it. Well, I've got a kid in the Air Force and I've heard the expression that uh any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. Exactly. Yeah. But I have a 30 minute about a 20 minute video that goes into the whole development of the program and stuff. But first, then the Rockets.
44:15 First, then the Rocket. Okay. So, they've only got this, you know, this what football window to work in. Okay. Let me answer her question first. Okay. So, I made a copy of C130 serial numbers. Locked Ontario was a mod shop. We had combat Talon, Rivet Fire, Rivet Rider. These are all special mission birds. And and I saw this words credible sport written next to us and I went what is this? I can't tell you what. And I kept asking people what is this? What? Oh.
44:50 And so finally one guy told me about I says oh okay and I started to write letters. I've been researching this for jeez 10 a long time. And um I finally got in touch with somebody I knew at Lockheed back in 2008. He sent me the manual for it. And then recently I received some more information. I mean you never know what you're going to get. I mean I have I have Freedom Information Act requests going back 10 15 years and they dribble in occasionally.
45:28 So as things get declassified. Exactly. because I I've been I I have a list of all the different names that people knew it as it was. That is amazing. Hey Tim, I'm gonna That is incredible. And I'm sorry if that wasn't yours, but you you're the one who got the the video there at the end, right? That's That's the one I sold to the Discovery Channel. Either Discovery or Destroyed in Seconds. What?
45:55 Oh, that's what it's called. the the TV series there. I sold it to the Discovery and the History Channel. One was destroyed in seconds and I can't remember what the other program was. It's the name of a program is all I hadn't heard of it. Yeah. I thought that they had taken it and destroyed it. Destroyed it within seconds is what I'm saying. Yeah. No. Okay. Anyway, but um the video the CD create like what you saw is a compilation of four other I have four videos on my DVD that I created.
46:29 Um but a bunch of programs I worked on like I worked on Gunship and this is really cool. Tim, I'm going to let you continue talking about I got to bring somebody else on board. You understand? Hey, change with Dane. Change with Dane. Hello. Alert alert. Change with Dane. Better get decent down there. Are you decent? Change with Dane. Okay. No. Pull it all the way up. There you go. Okay. Here we go. How are you doing?
46:58 I'm good. I'm good. I had to change locations. I was out on the back porch enjoying a beautiful Northern California evening. It looked like you were I love your YouTube channel, Dane. Well, thanks for watching. Yeah, I came across you on LatterDaily Digest a while ago and I've been watching since. I really like it. Well, thank you. Thank you. Trying to get some good information out there to help people a little bit.
47:27 Now, what are you talking about? You have a a show called Change with Dane or what is it called? Yeah, I do. I um I have a channel that's dedicated to giving um very basic information on how people can change their thoughts and behaviors. Yeah. And um it's very small uh at this point but just starting out. So what's it called? What's that? It What's it called? Change with name.
48:02 Okay. Okay. So, it is called Change with Dane. Yeah. Is that on YouTube? It's on YouTube. Yeah. Okay. And that's What was the last episode about? Yeah, that's also my therapy practice uh change with Dane. So, your therapy practice. Got it. Yeah. He was in the service, too. What's that, Laura? You were in the service, too, for a long time, weren't you? 27 years. Thank you for your service, Dane.
48:32 Thank you. And oddly enough, Tim, I never flew flew on one of those planes that blew up. Hey, would you guys just talk about yourselves for a second? Cuz this this You never flew You never flew in a C1selves. I'll be right back. Okay. Maybe in the jump seat, but no, I was not a um a big uh flyer in the Air Force. I was a a therapist, social worker. Oh, we we we met at Thrive, right? Yeah. Yeah.
49:01 Okay. Okay. Had lunch together. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, RFM must be checking well checking on that mysterious sound that he had heard earlier in the broad in the podcast. In the podcast. Okay. Checking on the voice. You're muted. You're muted. Everyone together and you're muted. I'm saying I hope that nobody get me copyright struck again. RFM, what call is coming from inside the house.
49:39 It is now. I'm sorry, but you It's actually kind of funny. It's actually kind of funny because here's the answer. The mystery. The case is solid. I got up and I can't really hear. I'm walking to the front door of the um the studio. I can't hear. I go out into the lobby. I can't hear it. There's nothing. I'm walking back in. I can hear it. I go back into the back part. The phone is on and it's this show.
50:10 The phone is on because uh there's some of you who will know that I was in the live chat like 30 minutes before the show started or whatever it was. Well, apparently I had never changed it from that setting and it went on back there. because it's, you know, it's got the cord in. It's juicing up and I was competing with myself here. I almost drove myself crazy. Does that give you another view? Like, does that give another view?
50:36 I hope so. At least I figured that one out. I'm actually figuring something out even though I'm the one who caused it in the first place. Are you running ad block? Because if you're running ad block, it doesn't give you a view. I have no idea. Um, I don't run I I have a premium channel because I watch so much on YouTube. I don't want the commercials and I feel I feel like it's okay for me to to deduct that. Yes, I do. I deduct that. Damn it. Hey, did you want to say something to change with me, Dane, or change?
51:08 Yeah, I was just thinking now I think a lot of us are thinking at this point that the whole um land and excommunication is potentially a scam, but with Oaks's um uh you know reiteration that more excommunications need to be happening. Yes. You concerned about that at all, RFM? No, it touches me not. Okay. Yeah. Actually, RFM, uh, the the part that's kind of scary is all the church needs to do if they really want to get you.
51:50 Yeah. Is send a copyright strike against you. He did. And that was your Hold on. I think they did get a copyright strike. You know the church does watch the show na right but oh shut and zuppen I I will yeah shut and see up and maybe you talking to me with the post show yeah at least I use the polite form so change with Dne can we go back to change with Dane is that okay sure so what do you want to say uh Dne oh I I was just curious if that had uh crossed your mind and um if you were thinking about that at all in terms of you know the church feriting out people that they feel are you know still holding on to that membership and do you know why I think I'm I'm going to say why I think I'm safe okay said it because as soon as you say something like that you have cursed yourself right the gods I'd love to hear your theory.
53:03 Uh for the same reason that that Don Oaks his one optional choice I mean uh for counselors right he had a mandatory choice that was Henry Iring he had to have Henry because of the business experience because he knows too damn much. Yeah. Um fortunately he's forgotten like 99% of it but it's that one. You never know what that 1% could be. Yeah. Um, so but the other one, the optional counselor number two, that's why because we're lawyers. You see, right, we all know that blood is thicker than water, but law is thicker than any of them. Yeah, that's what I think. That's my own private thing. And I also think that this thing with um Landon is just ridiculous. I think I don't think that's a real excommunication. And if it is, these are the worst excommunicators ever. You know what it looked like to me was a a corporation saying, "Hey, you haven't been performing well. Here's your letter from HR." And HR was just like asleep that day. They couldn't even
54:07 get his name right. They're just, you know, giving him his walk-in papers like, "Well, you know, they have templates for this." Yeah. Just throwing that [ __ ] against the wall to see what sticks. You don't have to reinvent the wheel for a stupid excommunication letter, right? Let's bring out. I mean, let's talk about what he spent5 or six dollars to send a certified letter to Landon.
54:32 Yeah. It makes it look official. There was no return address on the certified letter even, right? Yeah. So, where did the where did the green card go? It's ridiculous. Does anybody have the ability to check and see if his membership is actually cancelled? Like I think some people do, but you know, why don't you just call your state president and say, "Hey, uh, somebody sent me a letter. Did you send it to me because it says it's from you and I wanted to make sure it it's a phone call." Right.
55:00 I thought Landon had said his state president was his neighbor. Is that that or his bishop? I told him just go next door and say, "Hey, this from you." That's how you solve the mystery. Sometimes the most direct path is the best, right? and he got a text, you know, about, hey, something something or other. And then, you know, then he gets this, which is the only reason he's lending it credence. And when I got my uh membership withdrawal return letter, oh, so many years ago, there was no letter head on it. It was a pretty plain envelope.
55:36 H from your membership withdrawal. Yep. There was no letter head. No, nothing. You know, it was basically like, yeah, your membership has been rescended as per your request. Did you have your name removed from the records? Yes, this is before quit Mormon uh was a thing uh over 10 years ago. Yeah, I did mine in the same time frame and letter head and a nice little um glossy brochure to tell me how to, you know, what I'm giving up and and um how to come back.
56:15 Mhm. Oh, I I didn't even get that much. I just got a letter. Yeah. Which I probably shredded. But don't let the screen door hit you on the way out. That was your letter. Alex the Maple. Alex the Maple. Yes. Everybody shut up. Alex, let somebody pull us here. I've got to introduce him. Damn it. We've still got people below. And by the way, we're almost at an hour. For all of those of you down there in Spirit Prison, there's DG in West Texas. That's like really bad. That's the worst part of Spirit Prison is the Spirit Prison in West Texas. Then there's Sister NeverMo.
56:49 And then there's Mix. And then there's Seymour Johnson. There's Gabby Griier. And I I did my best on that. So, let's go ahead and move it along. I want you to know I'm going to go at the two hours because there's so many people here. Okay. So, think that your your sacrifice is in vain. We'll move through these as quickly as possible in spite of the best efforts of some people on the stage.
57:11 RFM. Yes. I want to cheers you on Mayday and then I'll back out here. Cheers, baby. You can hang out. We got plenty. That's okay, bud. You're awesome. Thank you, sir. Okay. Well, thank you, sir. Do a great job. Cheers. See you later. call out. I'll uh I'll mute myself till you know till the end of the thing and then hang out with me a couple minutes and I'll I'll go over the disaster scenario.
57:37 Not not on the show, right? These are private conversations we should be having. Don't you think? That that's what I'm saying. You know, like after you've turned off the broadcast, you know, uh you know, I can mute myself for a while. Okay, great. Great. And then that way we have a way to quickly transmit information as opposed to like clumsily like fondling around with emails and things getting lost.
58:02 Yeah. Okay. Well, really you I'm going to have to hook you up with Bill. And I mean that in the nicest way possible. No, I I get that. You know, that's uh that's cool, you know, but yeah, it's something I think is concerning. Yeah. Do you know how to get a hold of that guy? If he were here, you could talk to him, but he's not. I know. If only he were cool enough to be a Mormon. Uh, you know, Mormonism live after dark, right?
58:28 Yes. Mad or just mad. Mormonism after dark. We call it Mormonism after dark because it is easier to say than mad. True. All right. So, thank you, Alex the Maple. How are you doing? I'm okay. Are you okay? I don't know. I'm getting stressed with all the people down there. Well, it's a bit like watching a grandfather enter his Netflix password using an Apple TV remote. I That sounds funny, but I don't even get it.
59:03 Just old man with technology. That's what I'm saying. But you're doing a great job. Just like the Thank you very much. I'm doing as good as I can. Yes. Yes. Yes. And uh the grace of Christ covers the rest. I understand. Well, don't you have to work for grace? It's after all you can do. Although I think Stephen Robinson came up with a good argument that that actually means in spite of all you can do. But we don't have to go there. Was that 2 Nephi 2523 or something?
59:27 Well, I haven't read the Book of Mormon that intensely. Oh, yeah. Right, Alex. You know, I have, you know, I have to read it in short bursts because it's incredibly boring. Yeah, it is. Yes, it is. It is. But I've nevertheless read it many, many, many times. read it in German in print. It was Hibi that said being a Mormon uh entails having an almost endless ability to endure boredom.
59:59 I I was uh confabbing with Tim uh after what was the what do we do on uh Tuesdays with Tim? We usually hang out after after the stream ends. And I I I said, you know what, one day I may be in in my mind, my right mind, uh to conduct a vast redaction and rewrite essentially a vast rewrite of the Book of Mormon and just put in all the myths, put in all the the poetry, put in all, you know, change all the names because most of them are incredibly stupid. Uh normalize the geography so it actually fits North America and just post it online.
1:00:39 and say nothing. But now you know the secret's out. If I do that, then everybody know it was me. But I will have forgotten it by the time you get around to it. Well, I'm curious if people would be so intent on believing that it were to be true. Mhm. Uh if the myth if the myth was more consistently told, if it was more engaging, if it was if there was less of an imposition on you as a believer to hold to this work, which is incredibly boring, uh to be scripture, if it was just better written, then you have to think, you have to think back in time. Would there be more converts to to the LDS movement? If the Book of Mormon had been better written if the original vision, whatever it was, was actually brought to fruition and both uh Harris and Smith had not lost their papers almost simultaneously to each other, which is, you know, the latest hypothesis that I've heard that the reason the project fell apart is because they both lost the papers they had for, you know, for, you know, under different circumstances.
1:01:46 So, would there be more converts if the myth were better told? No. I'm going to come down on the no side of that. Why? Because I just recently came across this quote by Schopenhau, which I think is true, which is that if you write for fools, you will always have a large audience. Yes, that's what I was thinking. Yes, that's what I was thinking. But then I listened to Mormons talk about the Book of Mormon.
1:02:12 Yes. and how enthusiastic they speak on it. And I'm not entirely sure if it's a performance. No, largely it's because they don't have anything to compare it to. And one of the one of the nails in my testimony was becoming familiar with literature because I thought the Book of Mormon was incredible until I saw what incredible looked like. Well, let's roll the Book of Mormon over into its peak iteration, which was the Legendarium created by John Ronald Tolken.
1:02:50 It has a complete myth. It has a cosmogy, a cosmology. It goes on. Did you say the cosmogy? Cosmogenics. Before that, the what by Tolken John? Uh, the legendarium. The legend RM. Yes. Legendarium is the American um you've never heard that before? No, I'm not sure I'm hearing it now. Legendarium. That's what Tolken's mass corpus is considered, right? But he used he used the older pronunciation which is legendarium. So legend and then just a because I thought you were talking about a return missionary who was really good.
1:03:24 So he's a legend. So Tolken wrote a cosmology, a cosmogenesis, and he has a vast civilizational epic that is largely told long before people even reach the point where they would read the Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. Mhm. And then he has a an apocalypse and a redemptive arc. But Tolken has always gone out of his way to say it was fiction. It was not anything approaching inspiration.
1:03:56 So what is what is the legendarium? It it's it's a cohesive secondary world with an internally consistent history and a consistent geography and a consistent application of linguistics. If you look at the Book of Mormon you with a particular lens that's a very it's a proto version of that. Mhm. So I would think if your if your position on this is true, then people who are exposed to a comprehensive mythic cycle written by one man because the the the single what is it the the um Dan's hypothesis about this one person whatever he calls it one person the narrative voice maybe might be a more literary term the one person who wrote the Book of Mormon singular singular authorship I think it's called okay I'm half asleep So I can't really uh think of the name. Whatever Dan Vogel's, you know, bugaboo is about, he gets really aggressive with it. So if one person wrote the Book of Mormon, one person wrote the Legendarium,
1:04:58 one person is writing the Cosmir, Brandon Sanderson, uh though that's a comprehensive world, one person is writing the known world. That's George Martin's uh um fantasy series. So why wouldn't the Mormons feel why would why wouldn't they feel disappointment when they read those those works as well written as they are and they turn around and look back at the Book of Mormon which is a sort of a proto version of of a cohesive secondary world. Mhm.
1:05:31 If you look at it from a literary and narrative point of view, why would they then not fall out? What's keeping people loyal to the Book of Mormon as boring and as poorly written as it is? I'm just curious. Usually, it's a lack of reading it. Is it that simple? Usually, the Book of Mormon is a book that to uh not read it is to love it. Most Mormons have not read, but I read it a lot and I loved it. So, I'm certainly not that. But I think that most Mormons don't read the Book of Mormon. I mean, would that be that unusual? I don't think most Christians read the Bible to any, you know, studious degree.
1:06:07 But you're you're exposed to the text in so many different ways. I'm assuming that also applies to the Mormon church. I think the Book of Mormon is much more impressive in small snippets. You know, it's the best like the best 10 verses or whatever it is in the Book of Mormon. They get repeated all the time. I think they they sound more impressive that way. Or that [ __ ] speech that people tend to repeat from what is it? Benjamin um about Mosiah 2 through five. Whatever it is, I've met a number of Mormon men who say that it that really moved them and they repeat it word for word.
1:06:41 Yeah, it's okay. It and this is the this is the whole thing. I've heard the same thing again, okay, about King Benjamin's speech. Wow, that's incredible speech. Look, it's not that great. Okay, it it's rambling. Uh it doesn't really have a it's not that great. Okay, I know what a great speech sounds like. That's not a great speech. But when you're Mormon, you almost feel compelled to say that because that is one of the things, by the way, I'm going to bring DG on here as I complete this thought.
1:07:11 That's one of the things in Mormonism is that in order to be a true Mormon, you have to believe and at least say that everything that is Mormon produced is the best in that field. Hey DG, are you okay? What's up, RFM? He's kidding, right? You knew that. I mean, you heard me say that I was bringing you on, right? Yes. Okay, good. Thanks for the heads up. Appreciate it. Hi, DJ. Your hair's growing back nicely, I must say. What's that?
1:07:41 Your hair. It's growing back nicely, I must say. Oh, it's Yeah, it's growing in like a weed, that's for sure. Not quite fast enough, but it's growing back. Yeah, I did a little bit of uh courtroom cartooning myself, and I thought, you know, here's here's my drawing of RFM. I like it. You can put that up on your wall and take my picture down. Damn it. You'll no longer have my picture on your wall in West Texas. Your your beard's coming in nicely. RFM, thank you. Thank you. You know, I shaved it. I'm shaving on the side. I'm doing the more the goatee thing. I was growing it back in the side, but man, you know, I only shaved it off once and then immediately started growing it back. But and I thought it's not going to be as difficult to grow back this time because now my face is used to it, right? It's really I have hair that's curly and it's kind of it's coarse and it's it's uh it's uh uh I get ingrown hairs, that kind of thing because it's curly and coarse. So but I thought that so it can be very and
1:08:43 it it makes red spots on my cheeks, you know, where the hairs are. Anyway, all I'm all I'm saying is no, there was no mercy. It was It was exactly as bad as it was, if not worse than it had been before. So, I decided It's always worse when it grows back in because it's itchier than the time before. It was terrible. Yes. It's awful. DG, what did you want to say here? Well, I was going to ask a question, but then I realized it was probably better addressed to Bill Real, but I'll I'll throw it out to you anyway. It was uh this uh this true blue believing member Jeff Strong's new book torn about the research he did about why members are leaving the church.
1:09:26 Yes. My question had to do with uh Bill was putting up a lot of information and I thought it was great. But he he kept he said that according to the book torn by Jeff Strong I have to keep looking at my notes. um he he made a distinction between traditional members and then I don't know what the other category was and I was trying to figure out what what was the distinction what was what was a traditional member defined as in the research versus a non-traditional member. I can't remember what the traditional members was one camp and I can't remember what the other one was but I was curious what the differences were because it seemed like there was a huge variance in some of the data that his research showed. I would like for that to have been a little bit more clearly defined as well.
1:10:13 Okay. So, it wasn't just me. Those were exactly my thoughts at the time. Uh, and also I'm curious what your thoughts on on do we need to put Jeff Strong on a suicide watch because is he about to be excommunicated before too long for revealing uh, you know, what's the difference between Jeff Strong's research and John Delin's research and every other EXMO and non-members research as to why people are leaving the faith. Jeff is the color of my bow tie.
1:10:44 Say again, Jeff. I said the difference is the color of my bow tie. And Jeff Strong still maintains his belief in the church if you watch the video. Yeah. Well, I mean that's the only difference is he he's on all of the u apologist web podcast, you know, making the rounds. And I'm like, well, this is great because his his research, if I understand Rebecca from Monday night's newscast, uh, the research that that Jeff Strong came up with pretty much correlates with what we already know.
1:11:17 Uh, his research basin's research, all the EXMO research, the non-members research, all of the data and surveys that have been done outside of the faith. But yet, the only difference is he's a voice inside the faith saying the same thing. So, he's at least getting listened to by the apologists podcast, which I think is great. And but the church is not going, you know, he's not doing the church any favors because he's basically outlining the same problems that everybody else is in or out of the faith. But since he's in the faith, you know, they they don't take kindly to being, you know, mocked or made fun of or look like a fool or, you know, when you bring truth into the mix. I think they like it when I do it. or John. Yeah. Right.
1:12:04 I just I was just curious, you know, how much longer he might be a member because uh you know, no good deed goes unpunished. We've noticed as Landon as as uh um Mr. Broofphy will tell you recently with his fake or factual excommunication. We don't know. I think he's making a point, this Jeff Strong fellow, uh, of staying off the, um, the identified as anti- Mormon podcast such as this, which is not anti- Mormon at all. Right.
1:12:32 But, um, I think he's making a point of staying off them in order probably to avoid that very thing. I can't say too much. First, because I don't remember, but also because I'm not supposed to. I think I can say that Bill Real had been making efforts to reach out to Jeff Strong about coming on Mormonism Live. Well, how how dangerous was the research that the September 6 were doing that they were, you know, because they were loyal Mormons and they were obedient Mormons and they were temple card carrying Mormons. Why were they kicked out of the church?
1:13:08 What research were they doing? Was it was it worse than what Strong is presenting or was it compared to That's a good question. It was a different it was a different church at that time. Benson was in charge and he didn't like M Well, Packer didn't like Mike Quinn. Yes. Um Gilead brushed up against Manki's version of Isaiah. They didn't like what Maxine said about women. Who are the others? Um and what Maxine said about the disciplinary that whole history paper. Not Maxine. Uh Levina.
1:13:52 Oh, that was Levina. I'm sorry. Yes, Levina. Single authorship theory. I just recalled it. That's what Dan Bogle really loves to to promulgate and procelite on. But yeah, Maxim was later. She uh hers was mother of God, but it was it's kind of lumped in with uh the six. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And praying to heavenly mother. Yeah. Scandal. Yeah. Heavenly mother, not mother. I'm thinking Catholic.
1:14:17 Oh, that's okay. It's all one. Hey, I'm going to bring on Sister NeverMo on the stage. Sister Never Mo, are you there? This is another person who looks just like a floppy disc like Laura and Yay. Is that you, Sister NeverMo? Yes, it is. How are you doing? I'm doing really great. Thank you very much. Well, it's good to see you. It's good to see you, too. I was just thinking um this past week as I was watching the YouTube videos which came up for me was the episode a while back with Mitia and Sarah from Slovenia and they were sharing about his excommunication and I saw some parallelisms to I I don't think his letter had letterhead I know they called him bro without the period just like they did right with Um, yeah, it was just and I'm like, what is this? Is this like a shunning thing? Like your brother until like we don't like you anymore and then you're just bro. Um, I don't know. But have you heard from them?
1:15:24 No, I haven't actually. It's been quite a while, but I did remember them immediately, which is unusual for me. Rebecca was in the chat earlier. What? Who? Rebecca Bibliotech. Yeah, she was in the chat earlier. Get her on RFM. Well, they don't have They're out in the forest burning the forest down. She decided she had better things to do. That's right. She could I doubt it's better than this.
1:15:54 How could it be really? She said out in the forest in sort of a mysterious kind of way. If a text can be mysterious, you know, the whole letter thing could be a matter of like uh not not Bishop roulette, but a matter of like technician roulette because someone needs to be smart enough to load the uh templates on if templates are available for a membership withdrawal or an excommunication letter.
1:16:19 Yeah. I don't know. You think at letterhead I mean normally people think that professional that's the way you do things. That's where you make sure that people know that this is for real. My excommunication letter had letterhead on it. Okay. Even back then it was back chiseled into the marble slab. Yeah. 2001 had letterhead stake president their name address blah blah blah. Well, my excom letter damn well better have gold leaf on it if I'm going to be real.
1:16:49 If you get one then you probably know first you have to join the church. Alex, can I admit something to you guys? You know, confession, you know, like a Catholic, I'm confessing. I'm confessing to to the people behind the screen. Um, I almost converted to Mormon. What? Yeah. What? Yep. Alex, no. It was in They lovebombed him. It was and made him feel special. It was in 2009. I had just uh ended a long-term relationship. It was a really, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't officially a marriage, but it was a very bitter separation.
1:17:28 And my neighbor, who was very kind and very polite, uh, went out of her way to integrate me into her family. So, she did love Bobby and so did her friends. And she had a gay mo friend or a homo friend, a homosexual Mormon or gay Mormon, um, who she tried to fix me up with. And he also love bomb me. And it I came very very close and then I said maybe I should do some research before I I make this commitment cuz I you know it for me it's like coming out of a [ __ ] up relationship twice because I grew up in a cult and then I had a relationship that was we were both in the cult.
1:18:08 Um we had both escaped the cult and we brought the cult with us. It's like when uh Mormons come to the east coast they bring the desert with them. So we brought our cultish desert with us into a relationship. It fell apart. in due time as as expected. And then here are these very nice Mormons who were very family oriented and trying to set me up with a nice Mormon boy who was exactly my type. And I came very very close. But something just doesn't make any sense.
1:18:37 Something told me to look before I I'm glad you looked because on the other side of that, you don't have to go far on the other side of that. It's like that doesn't make any sense. And it was it was for me it was a very clean break because I moved to Portland from San Antonio. Okay. So, I was like, "Oh, well, I have this opportunity to move in with a friend who was very ill at the time and he needed help um with uh chores and things." And I said, "Okay, well, I can come up because I I'm a writer or a ghost writer, so I can work from anywhere." So, I moved to Portland. And that ended my fascination with Mormonism at the time.
1:19:09 It's uh it's when I had time to sit down with uh during the pandemic, I went back. It's like, what was that episode? So that's how I fell back in with Mormonism. But you told me something about your mission. You might want to tell people what your mission was with the Mormons. Remember? Oh, you want me to tell the world that I was a Dominican priest and that I was trained to procelite to Mormons? Yes. Okay. Thank you.
1:19:41 Yes. I didn't want to spill your beans. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a former Catholic priest. Yes, I've I've said that before. It's not a big surprise or in big news. But you never I I I didn't hear the part about you were supposed to convert Mormons. Well, I not really convert, just proite to preach to them to give them the good news. Um the Catholic Church isn't very aggressive with conversions anymore. You know, all of the religious orders were the sharp edge of the knife of conversion or the sword of conversion, the sword of Christ. They're not anymore. Not since Vatican 2. So yeah, but remember question. Oh, sorry.
1:20:20 I was just say you're not alone. I took some of the missionary discussions back in college. Yeah. So I I was on the cuffs myself. I can only imagine that I probably would have ended up in a lavender marriage and I would like you RFM I would have been very very devoutly uh consolidating because I know quite a bit you know about the Catholic faith and about religion at large and about pers you know being persuasive from the pulpit.
1:20:50 Um I go out of my way not to talk like like a like a Dominican. It's it's Yeah. So sometimes if I'm erratic or I'm like I'm jumping from top to topic because I can feel that autistic, you know, well actually of the Dominican priests that I I just don't want to take over. So I I try to be as relaxed as possible. Okay. You seem very relaxed. That's one thing. You seem very I also have to sleep. So yeah. Hey, Alex. Yeah.
1:21:20 What would it take to get you into Mormonism tonight? I can throw in I can throw in a free Book of Mormon. Let's see. Uh $300 billion. How's that? Cash. I I'll tell you what. I'll throw you in at a discount rate. Only 10% of your income. What? You know, how can we close this deal? I want to close this deal tonight. I got to get my numbers up. You got to boost my numbers. I need to find out. I need to find out what Sister Never Mo called in about.
1:21:58 Well, I did part of it, but I do want to share with you a little story of a NeverMo going on a pilgrimage to Nauvoo. And a lot of our discussion tonight seems to be about like the church withholding information to its members. And have any of you been to Nauvoo? Yes. And done the pageant? Yes. Okay. No, not the pageant. I was there in the winter of 76 7 January 77 was the last time I was there. Joseph was still there then.
1:22:29 I at least did the pageant. We didn't make it out to Nauvoo. Okay. We went to this was 20 uh 2019 before co and my friend and I like to go on random pilgrimages and so we thought we'd meet up in Nauvoo and so we did like the touristy thing and then in the evening you want you go to like the pageant. Now, for those of you who are Mormon or are ex Mormon and have done this the Mormon way, I'm never Mormon, so we were do making it up as we went.
1:22:59 But in Nauvoo, there's one side of uh there's this big field and they have all these evening activities like potato sack races and and you learn how to jig to the to the to the uh to to the um bag pipe because that was Joseph Smith's favorite instrument. and you learn all this stuff and then there's this public street and across the street is where you go to watch the pageant. And along this public street there's all these protesters and people handing out leaflets and things like that about like here's the truth about the the Mormon church. Joseph Smith was a polygamist.
1:23:33 People with signs saying that kind of stuff. So as you walk across they're handing you this these things. And so as you walk across, my friend and I, you know, we're just taking some of these these these these these leaflets or whatever, and you get and there's like an army of um I guess they'd be see called senior missionaries maybe, but they're like there to take all these pamphlets from the devout Mormons who are crossing this street who are getting this anti Mormon literature, right? And we we we didn't really pay much attention to that. So, we go to our seats at the pageant and then there's still this these these senior missionaries coming through and taking these materials from the people. Um, so my friend is kind of just looking at this pamphlet and the senior missionary comes up to her and says, "Um, I'll take that from you." And my friend's like, "No, no, no. I'm going to keep it." And she's like, "No, no, no. I'll take it from you." And my friend's like, "No,
1:24:32 I'm keeping it." And she says, "But that's not approved by the church." like my friend's like, "Well, I don't really care. I'm keeping it." And there was this little showdown between this and my friend about this pamphlet. But now I understand from watching these shows and that how important and how like the relevance and the the the the how meaningful and important that is to the church to make sure that these pamphlets don't get into people's hands where you know we just thumb through it like oh interesting stories you know right um yeah so that was an interesting take from a um from someone who didn't grow up where that's not approved by the church meant something. It didn't mean anything to us, but I can see where it meant something to a lot of people.
1:25:27 The spirit of Nauvoo lives on. Now, I tell you what, that's a great story. Now, we're at 125 yen. We've still got some people below. I'm going to bring on as many as I can right now. And if we could just talk to these people briefly. We've got MX. Hi, MX. How you doing? Hi, guys. How you going from Australia? Oh my good from Australia. Hey, we've spoken before RFM. Don't act like you don't. Good day. Good day. No, wait till baby. I'm sorry.
1:25:57 That'd be terrible. I really had I'd feel embarrassed. And here's No, my baby's mopping the floor. Here's Gabby. Your baby's mopping the floor. Gabby, are you there, Gabby? Gabby. Hello, Gabby. I'm not hearing any Gabby. I'll remove that, but I'll continue to check. Oh, here's Gabby in a different in a different place. Here's Gabby. Hello. Hello. I'm going to take this other um I'll take that other one out. Actually, I'm not going to take it out because I might accidentally kick you out. Gabby, it's great to see you. Great to see you.
1:26:35 And here's Seymour Johnson. Seymour, are you there? Suddenly Seymour. There you go. That's it. Very good. Seymour is muted. Yes, he is. So, I don't know if he's there or not. Hey, Seymour, if you're there, you're muted. You're going to have to unmute yourself. I did not mute you that I know. Hello. Hello. Okay, Seymour. Seymour, let me know if you show up uh or anything. I'm going to remove you from the stage because all of a sudden now that happens and nine is better. Gabby and MX, how are you doing? and what brings you to the show? Let's start with MX from Australia.
1:27:17 Um, first of all, Laura, you're awesome. I've heard your comments before and I'm just sitting there going, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. So, good on you for saying the things that I want to say, too." Um, Laura's amazing. I love Laura. Wish you got a fan in Australia. How do you feel about that? Thank you. Um I I don't deserve it, but thank you Max. Thank you. You totally do. You totally do. Um just h just the way that everyone's behaving.
1:27:50 So I don't know if it's the cavalry that did that um letter to Landon or not. These people, they don't love Christ. They don't love the church. They love being bright and being better than everyone. That's it. That That's if I could sum everything up in one sentence. The church leaders, the cavalry, they just like being right and being in control of the narrative. And there's nothing Christlike about that. So, they're just proving to everyone why we leave or why we will never join.
1:28:31 I don't think they're aware of how they look to people outside the church as well. I know they have their own peanut gallery full of people who cheer them on and tell them how great they did and how wonderful it was the way they, you know, um were so uncristlike to that uh Baptist pastor or or whoever. Um but really people looking at this and it's not a pleasant thing to see. I don't think there's a lot of people who really think that they're cool.
1:28:58 No. and they're just bringing attention to themselves about what doofuses they are and how insular and ridiculous they are. So, they're doing us a favor. It's not a great way to do it, but really they're all doing us a favor. The trash is taking itself out as far as I can see. That's good. The trash is taking itself out. I always feel like when I'm ever I'm talking about this or somebody else is in earshot of me. I got to tell you that was me in my 20s.
1:29:32 That's probably exactly like I would tell story. Oh, there we go. Now I can Now now it's in focus. That is um I'm not sure who that's supposed to be. Is that Gabby? Did you draw Gabby? No, I can read it. That's my caricature of Na as the anti- Mormon. See, he's got fangs down there. Yeah, mine mine are coming in. Really good. Na the anti- Mormon. Yeah. Did you take verily I was given teeth that I may feast upon the flesh of Mormons. Yay. Verily.
1:30:02 E. I don't think nasty pointy teeth. Holy cow. One one more thing I have to say that. Um, come here Buzz. Yes, you got battling artists. Okay, let me just say something. Oh, you guys are all very talented, but nobody's Nobody's come closer. Hi, baby. Oh, jeez. A dog. Hello. Look, you m You're adorable. What's the dog's name? His name's Fuzz. Hi, Fuzz. Oh, all dressed up. Is that a Pomeranian? Yeah, he's my rescue boy.
1:30:40 Oh, it's beautiful in that tongue. He is. I know. I just wanted to show the outfit. I thought he had a collar on. He's wearing a tuxedo. Sorry, I'll bring it back. Sorry. How many tranquilizer darts do you have into that dog? No. Look at his cute tongue. That's at least three tranquilizer darts. No, he's only got one tooth, so his tongue falls out of his mouth. Oh, that's so cute. Oh, look at that bow tie. His little There goes the show. RF time. Wrap it up.
1:31:14 Yeah, this is my This is why WC Fields never worked with animals or kids. You can't compete with that RFM. No, nobody can. It's a given. So, I just don't work with them. Uh, Gab Gabby. Gabby, do you have a pet that you would like to share with our audience? I do not. I have only three kids and a husband. Well, that's four pets right there. Exactly. I didn't want to offend any of them, but it's pretty much patched.
1:31:50 That's amazing. Now, Gabby, I want to talk with you a little bit about why you called and I'm also going to add to the stage DF and uh oh, studio is limited to 10 people on the screen. There's um wildly unbalanced something that I can't read because it's such a long name, but we'll find it out when we get her on the stage. Um there's DF Gabby. Do you want me to log off RFM? Who? Who said that?
1:32:15 Me, Laura, so you can get other people in. Um, somebody just I don't know. Did someone just log off? I wasn't doing any of that. That was happening right there. Let's see. Here's a wild imbalance. Wendy, that's the rest of it. Hi, Wendy. Hey. By the way, nobody to log off or anything point, but 10 is the maximum. There was a sign that went up. We finally found out what the maximum was. And it's 10. Okay.
1:32:42 So, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. How many is 10? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. Okay. Who knows what I'm doing? There's a few of you out there. Okay. Sounds like Sesame Street. Absolutely. Sesame Street. And Gabby's having trouble coming back on the screen. I don't know why, but um and that's too bad cuz we're talking. Hey Gabby, I can't see you. I was wondering if I could hear you, but I can't.
1:33:16 It might be better if she can hear us for her to uh drop video and that will uh lessen the bandwidth requirement. Let me just try this. I'm going to try this. Okay, because there's a few of these here. I'm going to Okay, I'm g do this one, too. Um, what I'm doing is I am trying to close out windows that um, people have used before but then abandoned. So, I'm going to do this one for this one as well. And, um, Gabby, if you want to try and come back on, please do, okay? Because we want to hear what you have to say. Um, and maybe now that it what I did will help in some way that I have no idea. So, DF DF, what are you doing? Are you on the road?
1:34:00 I am on the road. I'm actually um hold on, let me find a place to park here real fast. You're driving? Yeah, I uh I'm on my lunch break at work. Um I my work schedule changed, so I'm working Friday nights now. Well, I'm glad you could join us. So, you're on your lunch break right now? Yes. And I just wanted to call in and say hi to everybody. I'm listening to you guys on my lunch break. I don't know how often I'll be able to join you guys with my new work schedule.
1:34:33 Yeah. But um it's always fun to hang out. Well, it is absolutely. This is great. Some great conversations. I think I've mentioned this before that whenever I'm talking with somebody who's on the road, I'm worried they're going to get in to an accident and I'll witness it. I'm parked. Okay. Someone could still rear end you. But um yeah, and then I would then I would be traumatized for the rest of my life. It's really not about the person getting injured. It's about the trauma it would do to me to have to witness it.
1:35:03 Uh yes, that's that's the philosophy that the Mormon church taught you. It's not about the injury to the person. It's about the trauma to the organization. Yes, that's right. I think right now the the LD more than ever. Yeah. them they the the LDS church are the real victims. Just remember that. No, they absolutely are. And everything that they they they write makes it clear who the culprit is. And that's us. Yeah.
1:35:33 We're all the culprits for the things that we don't know because they didn't teach us and they were hiding. We're we're the reason Christ hasn't come back yet. That's true. True. It has nothing to do with that mall. But you haven't even mentioned the Englishman who also got a letter from the church. The British guy. What's his name? Nemo. Nei. No, no, no, no, no. More current. I just wanted to say hi. I'm gonna sign off.
1:36:04 There he is. Hey, DF. Okay. Hey, you be safe at work. See you DF. Nice nice seeing you. I can't remember his name, but uh Steve does the church. No, no, no, no. He's English. He's in England. Um Okay. Anyway, he also got I haven't mentioned him. And that's why because nobody knows who he is. It's the restored branch. They're the ones that have the booker was interviewing who got sued by the church or something. Yeah. Is that what you're talking about?
1:36:40 Yes. Yes. He had gotten sued by the church a while back. That's my understanding. Yeah. Go, Gabby. Start talking. Don't worry. Just start talking, Gabby. Are they suing Are they suing Dylan for 10% of his income? I think they want to I think they want 100% of John's income. When? Well, they're only entitled to 10%. Tanners are good enough for them. They want everything. Gabby, did you have something you wanted to share with us tonight? Was something on your mind?
1:37:17 I was wondering what were everybody drinking tonight? First of all, Diet Coke on the rocks. How about you, everybody? Water. Pepsi. Like a Michael Jackson commercial in West Texas and in Portland. I'm a trader. I'm a trader. I'm a trader Texan. I should be drinking Dr. Peppa. Yes, you should. And Seven Up. Oh my goodness. So was like for uh 18 21 plus beverages, not pack. No, we're a bunch of tea totlers for crying.
1:37:57 You You don't know what's in this mug of coffee. That's right. Gabby doesn't know what's in our canyon. You just know something fun. And I also, this is my third time calling and every time I ask RFM about booking activities for the cruise and so far I haven't seen anything booked yet. I have too many things that I have yet to do. Where I don't do any of them, you know, it's overwhelming. You're right. I have not. I This is kind of the way I live my life. I just go where it takes me.
1:38:38 How come you're a lawyer? You should be responsible and on top of things. Well, I'm much more responsible when it comes to my clients. It's just me personally. I mean, he's legally obliged to be responsible for his clients. They pay his and I am and I really take that very seriously. And as far as clients go, I've transferred that seriousness and that fiduciary duty that I have toward them to everybody in the audience.
1:39:08 But what about those of us that are going to spend $900 for for for a room? What about it? On a cruise. Yeah. That you promoted. Yeah. What about, you know, I'm just curious where your fiduciary uh responsibilities lie in that example. It's exactly like the Kirtland Anti-banking Society. Yeah. Oh, Alex, I exactly as much meet you. I'm gonna try. I'm really looking forward to meeting you, too.
1:39:36 I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try. But I'm also I'm also working on the idea. I think it'll be reality of maybe on an evening on the concourse or something, you know, just having a little get together and talk or doesn't have to be about anything special, but um um just to try and uh have a time not an event necessarily. Not one of these special events like the deep sea fishing or whatever it was. Um but uh just to mix and mingle a little bit. I'm excited.
1:40:11 Well, thank you. I think it'll be a lot of fun. Um although I don't think about it too much. I live in week increments and honestly Sunday. I'm sorry, Gabby. Who else is coming? Hell this crowd right here that it's live right now. Oh. Oh, okay. So everybody, who's got who's coming on the cruise? Nobody. Just you and me, Gabby. Hey, I'm in Australia. Austral. Alex and I are Mayies. So Alex and you are maybe. Yeah.
1:40:45 Yeah. We're going to share um what do you call it? A room. A room. Cabin. A cabin. That's the word you were looking for. Yeah. Yeah. We're You killed it for me. RFM with that like dead uh dead likeness that you got in me there. I'd be nailed I'd be right on the spot with it. So I'm out in case I end up missing on the cruise. So I want to make sure the police have a copy of it. And that one too. You hold on to that one. I like that. I like the jaw. That's like a Schwarzenegger jaw on that one.
1:41:26 We Let's see here. So now Wild I think Wild Unbalanced Wendy, what a lovely room. Hi. Um yeah, I was listening to y'all when I was shopping at Costco and then I I missed part of it when I drove home, but here I am. And I I don't have anything really very intelligent to say, but I was just wondering if I could do like a little segment on like [ __ ] and betrayal. Um, you know, like the current betrayal.
1:42:00 Uh, that got my blood pressure just kind of a little skyhigh today. What was that? Well, um, my youngest sister, um, she had to move to Utah. It's a long story. Where are you? What state? Uh I'm in San Diego. Okay. And um anyway, so uh just a couple days ago, our sister-in-law who lives in Provo, and I love her dearly, she reached out to us to ask us when did our parents get sealed in the temple? because our mother ran off and married our dad when my our mother was 16 and she was not a member of the church. So I figured they got married, you know, sealed in the Salt Lake Temple, but we're talking like 1939 or something, right? And so then our sister-in-law reaches out. She's telling us that um her daughter-in-law wants this information for genealogy.
1:43:03 Well, actually, she just wants to get my sister's new address in Utah so she can update church records. And I just like [ __ ] lost it. Excuse my language. How did you find that out that that's what you wanted? Well, you know what? So, my last name is actually Miller and all everybody on that side. My dad was born in Salt Lake City um in 196 16 and all that genealogy is done. It goes back for generations and I kept thinking what couldn't she cross reference like on the church genealogy website? I don't know how it works because I hated genealogy. Fair.
1:43:48 Exactly. So why does she need to get my sister's address? She wants this. I just got enraged today when um it's so sneaky and you know it's the cult. And this uh particular well she would be our niece in law. She's married to our nephew and um they're very wildly successful. They live in Arizona. They have it all. Their kids are all that. um his you know they're just like this Instagram perfect family and I guess they're just you know worried about our salvation or something and um we don't want to be contacted and you know what if you would just be honest about it I wouldn't get quiet as but you know what I was in the cult um it was a terrible ex yeah someday I'll get on here and uh talk about other, you know, things that are really, really a lot of betrayal.
1:44:59 You should give her the address to the church office building. Oh, that's funny. Oh, that's one of those either the granite office building or the big office, you know, one of those buildings in that area. You brought down my blood pressure, Tim Rathon. Thank you. Oh, you're welcome. Do I understand correctly that instead of just asking you, her first reaction was to jump to a manipulative manipulative manipulate you to get this information instead of just saying, "Hey, do you happen to have I wow.
1:45:35 Why do you have to bring in our dead parents?" You know, my mother was born in 1921, our dad was 1916. We are the We're next. We're at the tail end of this big dysfunctional Mormon family with so much tragedy. Uh it's uh mind-blowing. So anyway, um yeah, it's like you're smart enough like why you could have found that information out from active members of our family or just get on, you know, whatever the website is with the church and they've got all the data. So yeah, I just was like it that makes me want to hurl that, you know, these techniques, these these man the manipulation and that's not doesn't make me feel warm and cozy towards the church. You know what?
1:46:31 Yeah. Have you contacted your sister yet? Well, my sister texted me. We texted me. We've been texting back and forth like, "Well, I think they probably got married in Salt Lake City Temple." And they were. I didn't know what year, but it's just like, "Why does she need that? Why does our niece-in-law need that? And why doesn't she come directly? Why doesn't she get our phone numbers from our dear sister-in-law and text us and ask us, you know, don't go through it? Just it's cultish. M it it ups it's ups a setting because I I was on on Halloween u last Halloween when you had we had costumes on and my hair was all like and I had a bird in my head on I don't even recognize you.
1:47:19 Well, I had a a big old I have fuzzy curly hair and I had the raven stuck on my head. Yeah. And I told I told you that um I had I've had a lot of tragedy and I've lost two of my four children to um in a very uh sad method and um I blame the church and I blame the patriarchy and you know like I was married to a sociopath so you know this is why I'm wildly unbalanced but I'm telling you the truth and you know it's just I don't want to you know go be like Debbie be downer here, but when these little incidences, these little betrayals happen, it just brings all that [ __ ] up. And I have been in uh therapy for over 25 years. I left the church 25 years ago. And um I wasn't really all in anyway. You know, I grew up in LA in Compton, California, and now I live near San Diego. Um, but anyway, yeah, you know what?
1:48:23 It I don't feel very warm and fuzzy about those techniques, how they they're brainwashed. You know, they can't just come directly to you and say, "Do you want the church to reach out or could I send them missionaries?" It's like, "No, my sister left the church in 1980. Do not do not update me. I don't want to hear from the church." Well, that's why they didn't ask you straight up.
1:48:49 Yeah. And I don't know if they know that my sister's bisexual. And you know, that was part of the reason she left the church at We all know now. Do do somebody in the SCMC just knows right now. It's manipulation for greater good. So, thank you for listening. Find it. Find an empty lot in Salt Lake and give her that address. Oh, you know what? And the other day I found the blessings.
1:49:20 Somebody had typed up the blessing of my fourth child. He was blessed in Oklahoma. Somebody typed it up and then I found the uh baptismal confirmation of the son I lost and um I am going to burn it. It makes me want to vomit because my ex-husband was so full of [ __ ] and he was so full of himself. Like sorry, you know, here's God, here's Jesus, here's Joseph Smith, and then my ex-husband, you know, the nar the narcissism. And I it's not I'm self I'm not diagnosing him. A psychiatrist said to me, "Don't you know you're married to a malignant narcissist?" as I might.
1:50:07 No, because we didn't have the internet. Um, we barely had electric typewriters in back in the day. True. I know what you mean, though. I'm actually between Jesus and Joseph Smith. You are. Oh, well, you're definitely smarter than Joseph Smith. RF smart guy. You could have done much better on that stinking Book of Mormon. Do you know it was a seminary teacher because they were desperate and I it was um I don't know.
1:50:40 Yeah, he was desperate because I you know but I made class fun. Those kids got more candy. I think they were sophomores and every every day I played a puzzle game and like a I don't know some kind of rhyme or made up a poem and they had to come up with the answer. Then I just threw candy. But then they they would interrupt me and say, "Oh, my last name used to be I shouldn't say it. It's really long and it's Danish." If the Dane is in here. Um anyway, um it was they'd say, "Uh, sister so and so, you know, you're all mixed up on that. It was not Nephi who said this. It was I don't know, Morona." And I'm like, "Oops." you know, they those kids definitely knew more than me me, but you know, and then my my daughter whom I lost, she was out in the parking lot smoking a cigarette all through um uh seminary because it was early morning seminary at 6:00 in the morning, you know, and everybody would come and say, "Uh, sister so and so, don't you know Molly's out in the parking lot smoking a cigarette?" I'm like,
1:51:50 "What could I do? She didn't want to go to seminary, but her dad made her." And so, yeah. Yeah, we all need a cigarette that early in the day. Somebody put somebody put the address for the for the dump in Salt Lake to use for your sister's address in the chat. Yeah. Thank you so much for listening because you know really good street club. My re my therapist is retiring. In fact, last Tuesday was her last day and I just love her. I've had her for 10 years, but I found a new one and I cried all the way through it. But I feel, you know, you know, it's like when are you going to get over that [ __ ] that happened? Never.
1:52:31 Never. Because, you know, the the malignant narcissists at the head of the church, they just set the tone for all of it. you know, the the boys who are told that they're going to have the priesthood power and, you know, don't trust your intuition and all the sexual shame. What was we lost? It's MX is drinking. I'm sorry if I made her like crack her brick wall, but anyway. Are you okay? Tell me to shut up because I'll talk till midnight.
1:53:14 Yeah, her her device toppled over. She's fine. You sure? I I saw I saw it lean forward. Australia to Iran. Okay. I hope her phone's okay. Well, you know, it's the Mormon incaid CIA agents who went over and uh found her and uh have decided to excommunicate her in a more permanent fashion. Okay. I'm sorry. She's got to come on the show. This reminds me, this reminds me of a true story. Back when I was 16, 1976, by the way, the bsentennial, you're I was a bsentennial bride. I got married in 1976. Wow. Go ahead. It's your show.
1:53:55 It's your show. Go ahead. 1976. It was a big year, right? Oh my god. And I'd be in the temple and I would look over at that guy that I married and I think, I don't want to be with him for eternity. Ew, you guys. Somebody else take him. You know, some other woman up wherever. You can have him. But anyway, this was at your wedding. No, it was like two days after my wedding. Ah. Uhhuh. That's a bad sign.
1:54:24 Yeah, it was really bad. He threw a fit at the wedding reception down here in u Escandido, California. It was awful. It was just awful. And I got pregnant three weeks later. So, what am I gonna do? Oh, boy. Yeah. Anyway, you know what? I'm free. And here here is my cat. Oh, wow. Cat. Her name is Eliza. Eliza. We're gonna make a star out of you. Hi, Eliza. Is that because she does little? She's That's so cute. Eliza Dittle.
1:55:08 Thank you. Look, we got an audience full of musical lovers. This is great. Across the RFM, you were saying what your story was. Doesn't sell them anymore. You were 16 in 1976. Shop across the road. Hey, Laura. They sell Laura. Send you the link. Yes. Somebody's talking. Who's talking? I think it's Max. You No, I think it's Max. You'll have to mix. That's her calling for the ambulance, I think. All right. Fine. Are you serious?
1:55:38 Yeah. She said no. She sent me an ambulance and he says, "Okay, I think she negotiated her freedom." No, wait. Did Did she call an ambulance? No. No. No. No. She's talking to someone on the phone. You're going to have to mute her. She doesn't know she's still connected. Oh, okay. So, let me see. Yeah, she may have flipped it over thinking it would take her out or that might have been the puppy coming up and being like surprise.
1:56:04 She wants to come back on then I'll see her below. Okay, but actually we're at two hours. We got to be going. It's been a lot of fun. We'll finish your story. Yes, this is 1976. Oh, who cares? You were 16. We care. We care. We care. It's your show. Tell us thing. I'm telling you. I'm in driver's ed class. It's It's I'm I'm 16. It's 1976 and it's summer. So, I'm taking it during the summer with a bunch of other kids from the school. And I could tell you stories about the driver's ed class, but I'm just going to tell you this one story today because it's what MX reminded me of when that happened is we are watching the movie that is literally called Death on the Highway. Highway.
1:56:48 Yeah. Now, if you don't know about this, this was back when they took all the most horrible mangling accident, the worst accidental accidents and you know, most of them are in freaking black and white because I don't know it's a 50s movie or what. I'm watching it in 1976 and the purpose of the movie, didn't they have one of these on the Simpsons? Hi, I'm Troy Ml. Yes. and about the um the the death on the highway and it's just a whole string to try and scare you into not you know acting like a jerk when you get your driver's license and realizing that there are real world impacts of this kind of stuff and it stays with you for like 24 hours and then you know it's on YouTube is it really yes I had a crazy time watching it because what I'm watching is there was actually a point when I thought is that my grandmother I know That's I don't know why that's funny.
1:57:46 I can't believe you're laughing at my my grandmother being in a horrible automobile accident, Alex. I mean, what kind of human being does that? So, anyway, it it was it went by really quick. I doubt it was she. Okay, it probably wasn't, but I thought, is that her? And um every now and then, morning the sun I'm sorry, what, Alex? Every now and then that movie would come on HBO or maybe it was Showtime or the movie channel and my brother and I would watch and laugh. That's why I'm laughing because we thought it was fake.
1:58:16 Okay. Not because you thought it was my grandmother. No. Okay. So, she survived. My grandfather didn't. So, and that was back in the 1950s. That's why I never met him. My dad's dead. Oh. Oh, so it was real. Yes. You're relating to a real event. Oh, okay. Yes. The one that you were laughing at. Apologies. Oh. So anyway, yeah, that's why I was saying all that. Um, but that's not the point of the story. I just remembered that while I was telling the story. The point of the story is is that we're all in our desks, right? You know, the little desk, the self-contained unit that has the the chair and then the arm and then the the thing you write on. And we're all there and I'm about halfway back in the class and we're all facing this way because that's the front of the class and there's the screen and there's the blood on the highways on this beautiful June Washington morning. We're watching this and then all of a sudden it's very quiet as you might imagine except for the
1:59:09 narrator. And um there's this guy who I don't remember who it is but there was this guy who's like an athlete. He was a tough guy. He's over here in front of me and to my right. And my attention is drawn to him when all of a sudden his books go from his desk to the floor and hit the floor black with this bang sound. And everybody looked over like, "What the heck's going on?" And then I see him slump to the left and go over and take the whole desk over with him. A rash.
1:59:50 He had passed out watching this movie. I thought it was passing out was that was exemplary. I thought So anyway, now we are at two hours with my story about death on death on the highway. I thought you were going to talk about death. Weren't you gonna talk about your near-death experience? I don't think I had one. Let's be very very careful out there. I don't have a near-death experience.
2:00:19 No, you were going to talk about your your something with But you didn't do last week because of that. I did it Monday, my friend. Tell me you didn't watch Monday's show without saying you didn't watch. I think it was Sunday. Oh, it was Sunday. That's right. It's Sunday. But no, it was Monday. No, Monday was the newscast. Sunday. It was Sunday. You're right. It was Sunday. It was the Monday before we didn't do the newscast. Right. Right.
2:00:51 We did Bill Real on uh Yes. uh under a debate with the Mormon apologist with the idiot Robert who stole everything from his father. Nothing is original with him. That was painful to watch. That's why Alex, me and Alex and DJ had our own private and you Laura, weren't you with us there? I think anyway it was Molly. No, Molly. It was Molly. Okay, it was Molly. I love that, Molly.
2:01:26 It was amazing. In fact, it was so amazing that that's what we're going to be doing next week's Mormonism Live on. I'm in charge. I don't think Bill would do it himself. He's too self- aacing. I don't have that problem. So, I was going to do it next Wednesday and uh you know, cut it up into the the most interesting parts, including the Nephites ate all the horses, the bones. The ice age is impossible.
2:01:51 there clip because I think it's just so memorable and then we're going to go over that. And by the way, tomorrow tomorrow let's start the day tomorrow. I mean, he's technically right. It was just much earlier that we ate all the that the horses were eaten much much earlier by running them off cliffs. Climate change is a thing areas. climate changes. There were also camels in North America.
2:02:23 Okay. Yes, there were camels in North America. Camels in like the Southwest. Well, in Victorville, I know that when they were building the hospital and they dug, they found a a petrified camel bone. Camel skeleton. Camel bones. The Nephites are real. I'm telling you. Thank you for that evidence, Tim. So, this is going to be on tomorrow. Okay. This is me. This is Colby. We're going to be doing a review um of this debate with uh Who's that?
2:02:58 He shall not be named Jacob Hansen and this other gal whose name is Ally Something Stucky. And I didn't know of her before. Um but she really manhandled Jacob Hansen. So should we watch it before we watch you? You don't have to. Okay. I did that for you. It's an hour and a half long. You see it's an hour and 33 minutes 57 seconds. You can see it there. It is that long. And it I'll explain it to you then. But it's kind of painful. Um it here's the thing. Bottom line, I have never seen a Jacob Hansen is the guy who's always thrusting himself to the forefront of these controversies to debate or explain about Mormonism. He obviously wants to persuade people that Mormonism is the best option, the true option, the correct option, right?
2:03:46 And yet, every time that I've seen him go on one of these shows to talk about Mormonism, right, he spends all of his time running away from Mormonism. And you'll see example after example of that in tomorrow's show because there's example after example of that in this show. He is always running away from the foundational truth claims of Mormonism and will not own up to them unless his ears are pinned back. as Ali Stucky had to do on multiple occasions.
2:04:19 It's really astonishing. I'm serious. He wants to make Mormonism something other than what Mormonism is so that he can't be get his ass kicked basically in the It's his version of Mormonism. And it's not even Yeah, it's not even a version of Mormonism. It's a version of Protestantism, which he's calling Mormonism in hopes that people won't hit him. It's insane. In fact, there's one place where she says, "Yeah, I know all Protestants would say the same thing." He quot he quotes Joseph Smith. Okay, it's 204. I'll just go on a bit longer.
2:04:50 I'm sorry. He quotes Joseph Smith about how, you know, the foundation of the church is Jesus Christ's resurrection of the apostles, blah blah blah. Their testimony and everything else is only appendages. We all know the quote, right? So, he quotes that and she immediately says, "Yeah, I know lots of Catholics and Protestants who would say the same thing, but what I want to get to is this.
2:05:09 See, he's not used to dealing with somebody who knows the stuff he's trying to hide. Which is why he will not come on the same show with me. It's why he will not go on the same show with Colby. It's why he will not go on the same show with anybody who knows Mormonism because we know what he's doing. What he miscalculated on is that this lady um Alli Stucky knows Mormonism way better than he wanted her to.
2:05:40 In fact, that comes out in the very beginning. I'll be playing that in the show, but uh um she asks a question basically, tell us about Mormonism and how it started. And he gives this ambiguous nebulous thing which is misleading as f. And she goes, "Well, yeah, but what I'm talking about is Joseph Smith said he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ, and then Moroni shows up as an angel and gives him the gold plates." All the stuff he was avoiding mentioning.
2:06:04 So, she knows the history. Yes. Oh, that's great. So, he has to try and recalibrate, but it's way too late because he's in and he would have to actually leave the interview like Quu did once. He would actually have to leave the interview now to win it. So, it's really remarkable. I have no idea why Jacob wants to go out and argue for the truth of a church that he clearly is embarrassed by.
2:06:31 He's paid to do it. That's the only thing I can come up with. He's paid to do it. Is he paid or is there an ego thing going on? Cuz I kind of get that sense too. Well, we don't I I don't think we know for sure about uh his being paid. Um but um regardless of what he's being paid, it's too much. That's all I'm saying. I think he needs not um a promotion. He doesn't need a wage increase. He needs a wage decrease.
2:07:00 I think so. Anyway, I mean, he's the guy who's out there going out there. So this is a lot of people's first impression of Mormonism and Mormonism's defenders. And the problem is is that when he does this and gets caught time after time by Alli, he looks like a guy who's ashamed of what it is he believes and he wants to hide it from everybody. So he looks sneaky as f because that's what he's being. I mean, look at that face.
2:07:26 Well, RFM, there was a recent appearance that he made at a convention. Uh the evangelist known as Rouslon, R U S L A N K D is the initials KD. Uh I want to say Bless God convention. This Rouselon character has a has a YouTube channel. He's pretty popular. And there are clips of his debate with another Protestant evangelist because I do consider Jacob to be a Protestant evangelist. M um and at one point this other guy who was quote debating with uh short stack just says he says a pjorative and then just gets up and walks away. And of course the crowd laughs but and Jacob smiles. He smirks you know his you know that curled up face of his. Um but it's clear that the man who stood up and and feigned walking away in protest was truly upset at what at how what's the word? How much of a weasel Shortstock was being and that that seems to be his MMO. He just it's weasel words and uh assorted comments. He doesn't really answer any questions.
2:08:40 No, but it was it was her show. It was uh Alli's show, so she had the liberty of doing it. And I know it got edited. So, but she but she did an incredible job. So, for that alone, I think that people should watch it because it's like a master class in cross-examination, which basically is you don't let people get away with not answering the freaking question that you wanted to ask. And you keep bringing them back. She was polite.
2:09:05 She was nice, but she eviscerated him so effectively that he's been making the rounds on all these other different channels like Psychward Radio explaining how it is that he didn't get his ass kicked by Ali Stucky. Yeah. Well, everybody, I'm we're going to say good night. So, everybody, thank you so much for joining. Uh Laura, Na, DG, Alex, Tim, Wendy, if I can just call you that. Yep.
2:09:29 Sister Never Mo, and everybody else who was on here before. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Of course. Masa Sucasa Moda. I'm gonna try and end the stream. Okay, now hang on a second here. Uh, okay. Now, I see you should have an option just end stream. I know, but you know, you can't start it either because they're worried that you'll start it by accident. And knowing me, I probably would. You actually have to click go live and then another a window opens below it. So, you can click Yeah, I really mean it.
2:10:01 Yep. The confirmation window. You click that up here in the upper right of screen and then the window opens and it says either not yet or play outro and instream, which I'm going to hit here in just a second. Everybody, please join me tomorrow night for uh really I think it's going to be an exciting and fun episode of uh Radio Free Mormon while Kobe and I uh review the debate that Jacob Hansen had or short stack had with Ali Stucky.
2:10:28 Yes. Have you have you recorded it yet or are you going to do it tomorrow? I have not. Tomorrow morning. Okay. So I I fly by the seat of my pants here. This is based in entirely on faith. But Kobe and I have worked together before. He just uh hasn't been available. So that's the first time we can get together and we'll do it then and I'll edit it. Whatever editing it may need, produce it, get it up. I already have a thumbnail ready as you could see. So that much at least is done. I've done everything I can in advance and I've got all the clips ready to go. There's 22 clips that I've called out after listening to it. Blah blah blah. Going to be a lot of fun and I hope you'll enjoy it. I'll see you there. Good night everybody and see you next Friday at 8 o'clock p.m. Mountain time for another episode of Mormonism After Dark. Thank you. Bye. Bye.
2:11:14 Thank you. Bye. Bye. Don't be mad. Watch Mad.
Comments (0)
No comments yet.